00:34 <Loqi> 1 files modified in http://github.com/geoloqi/android-client/commits/master by Aaron Parecki

08:17 <aaronpk> donpdonp: geoloqi is logging much more regularly this morning, however, a very weird glitch happened right at the end. It looks like the points came in with the wrong timestamps: http://snip.aaron.pk/2010-07-20_0815.png

08:17 <Loqi> morning.

08:18 <aaronpk> good morning loqi

11:35 <tjgillies> aaronpk, how can you geotag the paypal tranactions?

11:36 <aaronpk> Paypal sends an email whenever I use my Paypal check card, so I pipe that email to a script which looks up my current location and stores the transaction in the DB

11:39 <aaronpk> the script that processes the mail then also sends an "sms" command to my IRC bot which gives me a nearly instant SMS receipt

11:46 <tjgillies> oh, so you don't get geo data from paypal

11:46 <tjgillies> you tag it with Location.now

11:46 <tjgillies> smart

11:46 <aaronpk> right, using my own location data. Really I can geotag anything that has a timestamp now

11:46 <tjgillies> you're very clever Mr. Parecki

11:47 <aaronpk> why thank you Mr. Gillies

11:50 <tjgillies> do you guys have an api built yet?

11:51 <aaronpk> Yes, but it is going to change slightly in the near future.

11:51 <tjgillies> any docs?

11:52 <aaronpk> This is the format the data is sent and retrieved in http://geoloqi.org/API

11:53 <tjgillies> woo json, yummy

11:53 <aaronpk> Here is the feed as json http://api.geoloqi.com/api/location/key/1234567890 and XML http://api.geoloqi.com/api/location/key/1234567890.xml

11:53 <tjgillies> why not make the xml feed pubsub?

11:54 <aaronpk> The URL will change soon, but the data format will be mostly the same. I'm replacing the API key with OAuth access

11:54 <aaronpk> and yes, there will be a pubsub feed too

11:54 <tjgillies> nice

11:54 <tjgillies> imho i hate OAuth, whats wrong with basic auth?

11:54 <tjgillies> at least tell me you're using oauth2

11:54 <aaronpk> revokable access to apps is a big plus

11:58 <donpdonp> oauth means the client app doesnt ask for the user's password

11:58 <aaronpk> I *might* add support for Digest auth for developer accounts just to make it a bit easier to use, but I'm not convinced that's a good idea yet

11:58 <tjgillies> the only reason thats a problem on the net is because people use the same password for everything heh

12:00 <tjgillies> not a whole lot of difference between having an access token and a password, plus i would say most "normals" don't understand how to revoke access

12:01 <aaronpk> but from a server admin perspective, if I notice a particular app is misbehaving, I can disable that app across all accounts without affecting any other type of access

12:01 <tjgillies> good point

12:02 <tjgillies> im just bitter becuae i wasted so many hourts on oauth in the early days, ouath2 seems quite nice though, ive played with it via facebook with some projects

12:02 <tjgillies> s/becuae/because/

12:02 <tjgillies> can't type this week

12:03 <aaronpk> I agree that it's a bit awkward at first

12:03 <aaronpk> or even maybe second and third and fourth

12:04 <tjgillies> one thing twitter did, that im infinitely greatful for, is include an access token in the app settings, so you don't actually have to implement the whole login cycle if you just want access to your own account

12:07 <aaronpk> what? where?

12:07 <aaronpk> that's clever, I should do that too.

12:08 <tjgillies> thats why i mentioned it ;)

12:08 <tjgillies> its on their new dev page

12:09 <tjgillies> http://dev.twitter.com/apps

12:10 <aaronpk> ah cool

12:10 <tjgillies> specifically: http://dev.twitter.com/apps/163255/my_token

12:12 <aaronpk> the xAuth thing is interesting too

12:13 <aaronpk> ok so with a "my token" feature, that pretty much eliminates the need for dev-only user/pass auth

12:13 <tjgillies> from what i understand, xAuth is less about authentication, and more about discovery, although, i haven't read the spec too closely

12:14 <aaronpk> I thoguht it was basically exchanging a user/pass for OAuth tokens without sending the user to a web page

12:15 <tjgillies> that may be so, like i said, not too familiar with spec

12:15 <aaronpk> so you ask the user to enter their credentials into your app (or website), and the server negotiates the OAuth automatically. Obviously this goes against the password anti-pattern idea, but is more seamless for mobile apps

12:16 <tjgillies> that is actually interesting

12:16 <tjgillies> by credentials, meaning username/pass?

12:16 <aaronpk> right

12:17 <tjgillies> btw, have you seen http://www.glympse.com/?

12:17 <aaronpk> hah, yea

12:18 <donpdonp> woah, nice animation on glympse

12:19 <aaronpk> donpdonp: I added "heading" to the log from the android app so we could do that too now :)

12:19 <donpdonp> share your location with anyone for a specified period of time using patent-pending GlympseWatch

12:20 <donpdonp> aaronpk: yeah i saw that commit. cool

12:30 <tjgillies> just sent signed contributer agreement

12:30 <aaronpk> hey awesome, thanks!

12:33 <aaronpk> are you on github?

12:35 <tjgillies> github.com/tjgillies

12:36 <aaronpk> have you done much with openmicroblogger?

12:37 <tjgillies> not a whole lot. i forked it because brians my buddy heh

12:37 <tjgillies> i created an ostatus social network though

12:37 <tjgillies> thats my robin repo

12:38 <aaronpk> ah cool

12:39 <tjgillies> its not actively developed anymore because i kinda started hating rails

12:39 <tjgillies> i still love ruby, but rails as a framework bugs me

12:39 <tjgillies> i mostly do all my stuff in eventmachine now

12:45 <aaronpk> oh whoa...marshall's latest post: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/openheatmap_custom_heat_maps_for_geo_data.php

12:47 <tjgillies> yeah

12:47 <tjgillies> i started writing that yesterday

12:47 <tjgillies> s/i/he/

12:48 <tjgillies> btw, if you like that kinda stuff @geopdx has software that does that in a more detailed fashion

12:48 <tjgillies> at least that what he claims

12:49 <aaronpk> I've used google's api for plotting data on a map but it's kinda awkward

12:49 <aaronpk> would be interestde to see what @geopdx has

12:49 <tjgillies> you ever used mapstraction?

12:49 <aaronpk> no

12:50 <tjgillies> adam duvander (who wrote a book on it) is good friends with @geopdx

12:50 <tjgillies> i attended his session at web visions

12:50 <aaronpk> cool

12:51 <tjgillies> it's pretty cool, can do live "hot swapping" between google,bing,and open streetmaps

12:51 <tjgillies> api sandbox: http://mapstraction.appspot.com/

13:04 <donpdonp> aaronpk: you have to watch the What is Glympse vid

13:04 <donpdonp> the timed location tracking is very familiar sounding

13:04 <donpdonp> except with creepy hand-puppet things

13:07 <aaronpk> i know, it's like everybody has the same idea at the same time

13:07 <tjgillies> have you seen echoecho?

13:07 <tjgillies> its the opposite of geoloqi

13:07 <donpdonp> does it glue you to your chair? :)

13:07 <tjgillies> it asks other people for their location

13:09 <donpdonp> glympse is all Microsoft TV bail-ees

13:10 <donpdonp> funny that its an android app

13:10 <aaronpk> and iphone

13:11 <tjgillies> are android and cyborg synonymous

13:11 <tjgillies> ?

13:11 <caseorganic> I talked with scoble about glympse at foocamp

13:11 <caseorganic> he said he liked it but it didn't have enough features

13:11 <caseorganic> an android is a robot in the shape of a human

13:12 <tjgillies> so a cyborg is a human in the shape of a robot?

13:12 <caseorganic> the first cyborg was used to describe using exogenous components to adapt to an environment

13:13 <caseorganic> an astronaut is a cyborg

13:13 <caseorganic> a cell phone user is a cyborg

13:13 <caseorganic> an android is a machine

13:13 <caseorganic> a cyborg can have human and non-human components

13:13 <caseorganic> an android only has machine parts

13:13 <caseorganic> a robot can look like anything, but a human-looking robot is an android. data is one. but a googlebot is not. an astronaut is a cyborg.

13:14 <caseorganic> to take it really far.. which is a somewhat of a contentious point -- a caveman who uses tools is a cyborg

13:14 <tjgillies> so how do we know you're a cyborg and not an android?

13:15 <caseorganic> i cite it as an example of a cyborg - but then it would mean anyone using a took would be a cyborg.

13:15 <tjgillies> ;)

13:16 <tjgillies> i would personally make the distinction with electronic components just because in pop-culture "cyborg" seems more of a futuristic, techy term

13:19 <caseorganic> it does. when in reality it came from early engineering of space travel

13:19 <caseorganic> have you read the "cyborg handbook?"

13:19 <tjgillies> nope

13:19 <tjgillies> is it free?

13:19 <caseorganic> it's a really good guide to this subject- with lots of info about early cybernetics

13:19 <caseorganic> no - it is not. i wish i could send you a copy

13:19 <caseorganic> can get one for 10$ off amazon

13:19 <tjgillies> i can "accquire" one

13:20 <caseorganic> http://amzn.to/aqpywl

13:20 <caseorganic> at libraries too

13:20 <caseorganic> they have a used one from $1.89

13:20 <donpdonp> tjgillies: can you get me a toe by 1pm?

13:20 <caseorganic> Here's the article I was talking about - http://www.scribd.com/doc/2962194/Cyborgs-and-Space-Clynes-Kline

13:21 <caseorganic> Apparently this part is free. Excellent.

13:23 <donpdonp> someone send me a glympse

13:23 <donpdonp> there is an iphone client

13:23 <aaronpk> I would but I'm not going anywhere

13:24 <donpdonp> me neither :)

13:24 <aaronpk> Actually I need to go downstairs to get a drink, but it isn't that far ;)

13:25 <tjgillies> donpdonp, what email/phone number you want me to send it to?

13:25 <donpdonp> don.park@gmail.com

13:26 <aaronpk> sent

13:27 <donpdonp> the amazing thing about about the glympse process is that it never asked me to identify myself

13:27 <aaronpk> it only sort of asked me

13:27 <aaronpk> it asked me for a nickname

13:27 <donpdonp> it was login free. everything worked including sending my location

13:27 <donpdonp> then yeah it asked for a nickname

13:27 <aaronpk> yea, that's kind of neat

13:27 <donpdonp> but not a coordinated one or a password

13:28 <aaronpk> I was thinking of doing that for geoloqi too

13:28 <caseorganic> i think that would be a good idea

13:28 <aaronpk> basically auto-creating a user account (with no username) and doing the whole oauth thing with the phone, but the user would never know

13:28 <aaronpk> then later there would be a way to "claim" your account from the desktop

13:28 <donpdonp> how about a UUID as a device key over ssl

13:29 <aaronpk> no need for a device key once oauth is in place tho, right?

13:29 <donpdonp> yeah i was suggesting that instead of oauth

13:30 <aaronpk> oh

13:30 <donpdonp> but oauth makes sense still for 3rd party api access

13:30 <aaronpk> interesting

13:30 <aaronpk> I was treating the phone as a 3rd party too

13:31 <tjgillies> technically it *is* just another agent

13:40 <aaronpk> right. and the idea with this project is to make it self-installable on your own server, and to make the client able to point to other servers. So potentially you have n identical iPhone apps and m identical server endpoints and they can communicate in n*m ways

13:42 <aaronpk> the mobile apps should be able to send data to api.geoloqi.com or api.yourdomain.com just as easily

13:44 <tjgillies> i like that concept because i can create my own backend

13:44 <tjgillies> and just implement the geoloqi api

13:45 <tjgillies> and the app won't know the difference

13:45 <aaronpk> exactly. lets you write neat backend stuff without having to write a mobile app too

13:45 <tjgillies> its like the tweetie2 for geo

13:46 <aaronpk> This is the long version of what I preseted at fsws on Sunday. http://geoloqi.org/presentations/2010/07/federated-social-web-summit-location-sharing/geoloqi.html

13:46 <aaronpk> Slide 16 "for developers"

13:46 <aaronpk> if you didn't want to write your own server, you can use our API to hit callback URLs when certain conditions are met

13:47 <tjgillies> "our" api as in api.geoloqi.com?

13:47 <aaronpk> yea

13:48 <tjgillies> gotcha

13:48 <tjgillies> using one off callback is where DSL's come in handy

13:48 <tjgillies> s/callback/callbacks/

13:49 <tjgillies> "Respect the temporal nature of real-life relationships" i love that concept

13:55 <donpdonp> http://yfrog.com/75urkjj

13:56 <donpdonp> photo from the bathroom at OSCON

13:56 <aaronpk> LOL

13:57 <tjgillies> awesome

13:57 <tjgillies> donpdonp, were you at rontoms last night?

13:57 <aaronpk> I'm pretty sure I remember joking years ago about how long it would take before they put ads on toilet paper

13:59 <aaronpk> ctrl+shift+t: one of the most useful firefox shortcuts

13:59 <tjgillies> shift + f2 is my favorite one on opera

14:03 <donpdonp> aaronpk: agreed

14:04 <donpdonp> tjgillies: yes, i saw you across the room

14:04 <tjgillies> donpdonp, did you see the chair break?

14:04 <donpdonp> tjgillies: twice

14:05 <tjgillies> donpdonp, i stole the leg: http://nostat.us/pics/chair.jpg

14:05 <donpdonp> thats crazy

14:05 <donpdonp> so is the size of that image!

14:05 <tjgillies> lol

14:05 <caseorganic> yeah! that was massive

14:05 <Loqi> that's what she said!

14:06 <caseorganic> hahaha

14:06 <tjgillies> haha

14:06 <donpdonp> lol

14:06 <aaronpk> loqi wins

14:06 <aaronpk> hey now

14:08 <aaronpk> nom nom nom

14:08 <tjgillies> botluv

14:09 <donpdonp> noms

14:50 <tjgillies> could one of you install geoloqi on my phone sometime? i don't have a mac

14:50 <tjgillies> anyone going to ignite oscon tonight?

14:50 <aaronpk> android or iphone?

14:51 <tjgillies> iphone

14:51 <tjgillies> i would just install myself if i had android

14:51 <aaronpk> sweet, yea I can do that when caseorganic gets back, like Friday probably, I don't have our dev stuff set up on my mac

14:53 <tjgillies> ok cool

14:53 <tjgillies> i work from home so i can meetup anytime

14:55 <tjgillies> well friday evening im leaving to go camping

14:55 <aaronpk> maybe thursday evening

14:55 <caseorganic> thurs evening is fine

14:55 <caseorganic> i have it ready with provisioning profiles ready to go

14:56 <caseorganic> do you have a 3gs running ios4

14:56 <caseorganic> or do you have iphone 4?

14:57 <tjgillies> iphone 4

14:57 <tjgillies> waited 6 hours

14:57 <caseorganic> excellent

14:57 <caseorganic> that'll be perfect

14:58 <caseorganic> we need to test it on iphone 4 - so this is great

14:58 <caseorganic> could you download adhoc and email your uuid to caseorganic@gmail.com?

14:59 <tjgillies> is "adhoc" a piece of software?

14:59 <caseorganic> http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ad-hoc-helper/id285691333?mt=8

14:59 <caseorganic> it's a fast way of sending a uuid

15:00 <caseorganic> just look for adhoc in itunes store - or manually send your udid

15:00 <tjgillies> iphone uses uuid for identifier... hrm never knew that

15:00 <tjgillies> i use uuid all the time for my apps

15:00 <caseorganic> awesome

15:02 <tjgillies> ruby has a nice library. uuid = UUID.new; someObject = SomeClass.new(:uuid => uuid)

15:03 <tjgillies> caseorganic, ok sent

15:04 <caseorganic> Thanks very much! Saved

15:04 <caseorganic> See you thursday

15:06 <donpdonp> yeah for UUIDs. they're a facinating concept

15:06 <tjgillies> i used to use Time.now until i discovered uuid

15:06 <donpdonp> that we can coodinate, in a way, with zero interaction, from anywhere in space or time

15:07 <caseorganic> absolutely.

15:08 <tjgillies> well more specifically Time.now.to_i

15:08 <donpdonp> tjgillies: phear the 2038 :)

15:09 <tjgillies> that is going to be an awesome day

15:10 <tjgillies> 03:14:07 UTC on Tuesday, 19 January 2038 Drinks are on me

15:10 <tjgillies> as we watch the clock go negative

15:10 <aaronpk> i'm gonna hold you to that

15:11 <tjgillies> i'll tell my grandkids "When i was your age, the epoch time was a postive number"

15:11 <caseorganic> that's like the world agenda planners expo 2015. rsvp now!

15:15 <tjgillies> donpdonp, good thing I have a 64bit processor ;)

15:18 <tjgillies> althought im still vulnerable to the Sunday, December 4, 292,277,026,596 AD bug :(

15:18 <Loqi> it'll be ok

16:09 <tjgillies> hey reid

16:12 <donpdonp> aaronpk: a time/timezone problem on the android client is quite possible

16:12 <donpdonp> im struggling with it in the icecondor client

16:13 <donpdonp> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=8258

16:14 <donpdonp> i believe its an Android issue and I'm trying to convince android engineers of that

16:15 <donpdonp> glympse.com was registered in 2002

16:19 <tjgillies> donpdonp, is ice condor android only?

16:22 <donpdonp> tjgillies: correct

16:23 <tjgillies> donpdonp, im programming nodejs today inspired by you ;)

16:23 <tjgillies> was talking to igal, and the memory stuff might be really handy because ruby is a hog when it comes to that

16:24 <donpdonp> tjgillies: word

16:38 <tjgillies> test

16:38 <tjgillies> geojs is a bot i made in nodejs

16:39 <tjgillies> wonder if that fixed it

16:39 <tjgillies> doh.

16:40 <tjgillies> welcome back

16:41 <tjgillies> cool that works. it echoes everything said in room to STDOUT

16:41 <aaronpk> lol cool

16:47 <donpdonp> im wondering what would make a good storage engine for a nodejs backend to geoloqi

16:47 <donpdonp> i sortof asked that at cloudcamp but didnt get an answer

16:48 <donpdonp> for 'millions' of cell phones pushing location records :)

16:49 <tjgillies> the anser is always redis

16:50 <tjgillies> !talk test

16:50 <tjgillies> fail

16:52 <tjgillies> !talk please work

16:52 <tjgillies> damn you

16:52 <Loqi> lolz

16:57 <tjgillies> !talk to me

16:57 <tjgillies> dang javascript is testy

16:58 <tjgillies> !talk ok i declared your var

16:58 <tjgillies> well, at least it didn't crash

16:58 <tjgillies> doh

16:58 <aaronpk> lol

16:59 <aaronpk> the first thing I did when I started working on Loqi was to set up a method for adding functionality to the bot without restarting him, running actions in a separate thread so that if I made a stupid syntax error the new thread would die, but not the main IRC client

16:59 <Loqi> aaronpk is a buttwipe

17:00 <tjgillies> ooooh

17:00 <tjgillies> yeah i need to learn how to do threads in js

17:00 <tjgillies> or just put some exception handling in there

17:02 <tjgillies> !talk i need threads

17:02 <GeoJS> i need threads

17:02 <tjgillies> yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

17:02 <Loqi> :D

17:03 <tjgillies> so apparently nodejs doesn't do/need threads

17:09 <aaronpk> you could separate the logic of GeoJS from the IRC client itself by making the IRC client listen on an HTTP port and echo anything that comes in there to the channel, and make a post request to a different URL when anything from the channel is received. Then you could write a separate bot which listens for these messages, that way if your logic crashed, the IRC thread would not be affected

17:14 <tjgillies> you need to make loqisaur plush toys

17:15 <tjgillies> i would buy one for $5

17:22 <aaronpk> I would love to make plush loqisaurs!

17:22 <aaronpk> hmm

17:22 <aaronpk> one of these is not like the other http://snip.aaron.pk/2010-07-20_1722.png

17:32 <tjgillies> sweet that worked

17:33 <tjgillies> i put the bot code inside an external file, then read the file into a string variable and called eval() on it

17:33 <aaronpk> cool, and that doesn't crash the main program when there's a syntax error?

17:34 <tjgillies> not if i use exception handling

17:34 <tjgillies> try{ eval(foo); } catch(e){ console.log(e.message); }

17:35 <aaronpk> sweet

17:35 <aaronpk> casebot is so spammy lol

17:49 <tjgillies> ooops

17:49 <tjgillies> heh double spawened the bot

17:50 <tjgillies> heh double spawened the bot

17:50 <tjgillies> doh

17:50 <tjgillies> ok thats better

17:51 <GeoJS> testing redis pubsub

17:51 <tjgillies> sweet!

17:51 <tjgillies> bot now speaking anything sent to "geojs" channel on redis

17:59 <caseorganic> I would too.

17:59 <caseorganic> They've already been made.

17:59 <caseorganic> It's based off a stuffed animal I have

17:59 <caseorganic> http://www.flickr.com/photos/caseorganic/4677066346/

18:00 <caseorganic> the only problem is that i can't find the manufacturer

18:02 <tjgillies> we just need to get ahold of a cloning machine

18:05 <caseorganic> right!

18:07 <tjgillies> ok geojs now listening to local redis AND internet udp

18:07 <tjgillies> nostat.us port 2222

18:18 <GeoJS> test

18:21 <GeoJS> error catching

18:48 <tjgillies> donpdonp, lol php with nodejs: http://github.com/felixge/node-ugly

19:03 <GeoJS> foo

19:03 <tjgillies> yay! it works without crashing!

19:03 <Loqi> woot

19:05 <GeoJS> I'm a little udp packet, short and... stout?

19:05 <tjgillies> i could make an infite loop that causes my bot to send your bot a udp packet on channel message ;)

19:14 <GeoJS> netcat is your friend

19:14 <GeoJS> uhohfrom udp

19:17 <tjgillies> aaronpk, what do you use to send udp packets?

19:18 <aaronpk> socket_create() and socket_sendto() in php

19:18 <tjgillies> oh i meant command_line utility

19:18 <tjgillies> doh you made me put a _ in my sentence heh

19:19 <aaronpk> lol

19:20 <aaronpk> http://pastie.org/1053036